Kyle Abraham
Mage
Mess with the best, Die like the rest.
Posts: 35
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Post by Kyle Abraham on Jun 17, 2004 13:27:49 GMT -5
Sorry guys, but I can't help but hate that series of shows/books/movies/propaganda. Its just....sucks. I don't think I can put it into words effectively enough to tell you how much that show bothers me.  Maddox may have a point as well: maddox.xmission.com/startrek.html |
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Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Jun 17, 2004 16:46:04 GMT -5
I think I like Star Trek so much because it's highly symbolic. It's one of the few futuristic shows that doesn't rely totally heavily on cool looking cg dogfights, (although it's in there too) and more on socialogical, political, psycholigical, and philosophical issues relavent to the times when the shows were made. I mean, look at The Undiscovered Country, that's basically a metaphore for the Cold War.
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Post by Big Brother on Jun 17, 2004 18:36:07 GMT -5
That's the weakest Maddox rant I've ever read.
Trek, when it's good, is very good. When it's bad, it's pretty awful.
Occasionally, it rises to heights of pure genius: TNG's "The Best of Both Worlds", TOS's "City on the Edge of Forever", DS9's "A Sacrifice of Angels". Sometimes it sinks to depths of utter suckiness: TNG's "Genesis", TOS's "The Man Trap", Voyager's "The Swarm", any DS9 episode focusing on that idiotic Las Vegas crooner. Pretty much any holodeck episode in any of the series, for that matter, with the notable exception of TNG's, "Ship in a Bottle". Lately, it seems to merely hover in the region of the relentlessly mediocre: Nearly every Voyager and Enterprise episode falls into this category. Sometimes it toys with greatness before descending into utter craptitude: Voyager's "The Year of Hell", DS9's "What you Leave Behind", TNG's "Time's Arrow", and every movie since the third one. Well, except Insurrection, that one had no redeeming features whatsover. Even the hot babe guest star was old enough to be my mother.
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Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Jun 18, 2004 1:18:08 GMT -5
That's the weakest Maddox rant I've ever read. Trek, when it's good, is very good. When it's bad, it's pretty awful. Occasionally, it rises to heights of pure genius: TNG's "The Best of Both Worlds", TOS's "City on the Edge of Forever", DS9's "A Sacrifice of Angels". Sometimes it sinks to depths of utter suckiness: TNG's "Genesis", TOS's "The Man Trap", Voyager's "The Swarm", any DS9 episode focusing on that idiotic Las Vegas crooner. Aww, c'mon! You don't like Vic? :: hides James Darren CD :: He's so much fun... and anachronistic.... ;D I really liked What You Leave Behind... I'm a sucker for epic battles between good and evil, and self sacrifice. (in case you couldn't tell by any of my fics LOL) and it was so sad....Poor Jake.... never really liked him much as a character, but still, kind of felt bad for the poor kid... And Gul Dukat...he so craaaazy! And Garak...woohooo! Love that guy...Forgot what happened to him though...wasn't he finally unexiled? I don't know...the ending just seemed to fit the series to me...lots of loose ends were tied up, and a few left open for sequels (not like that's going to happen...grumble) The voyager finale kind of was a let down for me... Not sure why...granted I hadn't really seen a whole lot of voyager. but it felt more like...Awww... it's over, instead of ...Wow....it's over... Is that the one where there's this temporal anomoly working backwards through time? |
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Post by Big Brother on Jun 18, 2004 6:37:08 GMT -5
Aww, c'mon! You don't like Vic? :: hides James Darren CD :: He's so much fun... and anachronistic.... ;D Nope, he was blood-curdlingly annoying. I really liked What You Leave Behind... I'm a sucker for epic battles between good and evil, and self sacrifice. (in case you couldn't tell by any of my fics LOL) and it was so sad....Poor Jake.... never really liked him much as a character, but still, kind of felt bad for the poor kid... The DS9 finale had good bits, which is why I listed it under "toyed with greatness". But too much of it was derivative of B5 (Sisko turning into a ball-of-light like Sheridan), the actual ending of the war was so abrupt and pointless that it was quite a letdown, The P'ah Wraiths were a stupid-@$$ plotline to begin with...I could go on, but won't. And Gul Dukat...he so craaaazy! Gul Dukat was one of the best recurring-guest-villain characters ever....until the point he got made over as a Bajoran. From then on, he was just a sad parody of his former self. And Garak...woohooo! Love that guy...Forgot what happened to him though...wasn't he finally unexiled? Garak was indeed a great character. But, nice guy or no...once they got even an inkling that he was a spy, they should have deported his chitonous rear end post haste. I don't know...the ending just seemed to fit the series to me...lots of loose ends were tied up, and a few left open for sequels (not like that's going to happen...grumble) It tried too hard. Half those loose ends should have been tied up in the previous few episodes. It gets more marks for tying up loose ends than, say, the B5 finale, but but tying up so many loose ends in even a two-parter took too long to leave room for any actual plot development about HOW those loose ends got tied up. THe ending of the war particularly suffered. It was just...it's over. The voyager finale kind of was a let down for me... Not sure why...granted I hadn't really seen a whole lot of voyager. but it felt more like...Awww... it's over, instead of ...Wow....it's over... The Voyager finale was good in that, once they got home, bang, the series was over 10 seconds later. It was bad in that it had a silly-@$$ plot, laughable overacting from Kate Mulgrew (who's capable of much better), it killed the possibility for any further 24th-century Trek series (what with future-Janeway being there with her future-ship, they'll get enough technological boost to beat the snot out of anyone else in their era), and it was so overzealous about ending the series with the shot of Voyager arriving at Earth that they missed the opportunity for even a tiny bit of denoument afterward. Is that the one where there's this temporal anomoly working backwards through time? No, that would be "All Good Things...", the TNG finale. "Time's Arrow" was a season ender/opener cliffhanger two-parter involving going back in time to San Francisco in the late 1800's. Notable for having Mark Twain visit the Enterprise. Notable for being one of the silliest time-travel plots ever, and a waste of some good imagery (digging up Data's head in an archeological site was such a cool way to start an episode, too bad they had to waste it). |
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Kyle Abraham
Mage
Mess with the best, Die like the rest.
Posts: 35
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Post by Kyle Abraham on Jun 18, 2004 12:10:53 GMT -5
All this trekkie babble keeps me from being impressed. |
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Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Jun 18, 2004 14:20:42 GMT -5
What Trekkie babel is that? We haven't mentioned a single trek specific thing other than titles and plot lines. It not like we were arguing why the Enterprise-D could kick the Enterprise-A's butt, or the Romulan-Vulcan split, or Klingon Politics, that would be Treknobabel. LOL ;D
BB, I never got to see B5, so probably my rosy view of DS9 is created from my lack of comparisons between the two.
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Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Jun 18, 2004 14:27:43 GMT -5
No, that would be "All Good Things...", the TNG finale. "Time's Arrow" was a season ender/opener cliffhanger two-parter involving going back in time to San Francisco in the late 1800's. Notable for having Mark Twain visit the Enterprise. Notable for being one of the silliest time-travel plots ever, and a waste of some good imagery (digging up Data's head in an archeological site was such a cool way to start an episode, too bad they had to waste it). Awww...I liked that episode too... LOL But I'm a sucker for Mark Twain appearances....LOL Although I thought it was a little strange when Guinan was there, in the South, before the Civil War....Did they ever address that? |
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Kyle Abraham
Mage
Mess with the best, Die like the rest.
Posts: 35
|
Post by Kyle Abraham on Jun 18, 2004 18:48:03 GMT -5
I know I'm in the military, and have to deal with acronyms all the time but come on now:
"BB, I never got to see B5, so probably my rosy view of DS9 is created from my lack of comparisons between the two."
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Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Jun 18, 2004 21:28:35 GMT -5
I know I'm in the military, and have to deal with acronyms all the time but come on now: "BB, I never got to see B5, so probably my rosy view of DS9 is created from my lack of comparisons between the two." LOL...Yeah, I can see how that could be confusing....sorry I used to read a lot of stuff on TrekBBS.net (never really participated much though, because it was basically a lot of people bashing other people rather than intelligent conversation) Translation: Big Brother, I never got to see Babylon 5 (not a Star Trek show, by the way), So probably my rosy view of Deep Space Nine is created from my lack of comparisons between the two . (Babylon 5 started soon after the Star Trek Spinoff Deep Space Nine... both shows took place on a space station in a highly controversial part of the galaxy and it's common for fans of either Babylon 5 or Deep Space Nine to argue about which show stole what plot from each other. Personally, I don't care who came up with the plot...but eh...LOL) |
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Post by Lorpius Prime on Jun 18, 2004 21:39:04 GMT -5
Are you sure that they appeared at the same time? I could have sworn I watched B5 when I was still living in Connecticut, and it wasn't until I moved to Texas that DS9 premiered.
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Post by Big Brother on Jun 20, 2004 2:45:56 GMT -5
Awww...I liked that episode too... LOL But I'm a sucker for Mark Twain appearances....LOL Although I thought it was a little strange when Guinan was there, in the South, before the Civil War....Did they ever address that? San Francisco is in the northern half of California, which was a non-slave state that stayed in the Union (read: wasn't full of traitorous scum) during the Civil War. And I'm pretty sure the episode was set long after the civil war, since Mark Twain would have been all of 25 years old when it started. He spent much the civil war in a "volunteer cavalry unit" fighting for the South in Missourri (read: wandering around rural missourri trying to find some Union troops to fight, failing, and ending up stealing food from farmers instead of doing any actual fighting). I forgive Mark Twain, the only writer of the 1800's fit to put pen to parchement, for this lapse of character because he later freely admitted that fighting fro the south was the dumbest mistake of his life. |
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Post by Big Brother on Jun 20, 2004 2:50:59 GMT -5
Are you sure that they appeared at the same time? I could have sworn I watched B5 when I was still living in Connecticut, and it wasn't until I moved to Texas that DS9 premiered. B5's pilot movie (later subtitled Babylon 5: The Gathering, about the arrival of a new emissary on the station) and DS9's pilot episode ("The Emissary") were first broadcast within a month of each other. DS9's first series episode was broadcast a week after it's pilot two-parter episode was shown. Babylon 5's first series episode wasn't shown until a year later, because the studio waited until the ratings for the pilot movie came back before giving the go-ahead to start filming on the actual series. The Babylon 5 series concept and background information was pitched to some of the producers of Deep Space Nine two years before either were filmed, which is the basis for many of the claims of eerie similarity between two shows about a space station in front of a big swirly thing in space. |
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Post by Mlle Bienvenu on Jun 20, 2004 14:26:07 GMT -5
San Francisco is in the northern half of California, which was a non-slave state that stayed in the Union (read: wasn't full of traitorous scum) during the Civil War. And I'm pretty sure the episode was set long after the civil war, since Mark Twain would have been all of 25 years old when it started. He spent much the civil war in a "volunteer cavalry unit" fighting for the South in Missourri (read: wandering around rural missourri trying to find some Union troops to fight, failing, and ending up stealing food from farmers instead of doing any actual fighting). I forgive Mark Twain, the only writer of the 1800's fit to put pen to parchement, for this lapse of character because he later freely admitted that fighting fro the south was the dumbest mistake of his life. Nert... Why was thinking it took place in the south? :: thwaps self muchly :: LOL... I must have been tired when I wrote that post... and it might have something to do with me not seeing the episode since I was a kid... but still LOL... :: is really embarassed :: |
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